Written by the reviewer from the ASR + docket; [verbatim-ASR] = quoted machine transcript; [paraphrase] = reviewer's wording, not a quote.
0:00 I will go ahead and call the February 9th Finance Committee meeting to order at 6.02.
0:08 First order of business is the review and approval of the February 9th, 2026 Finance
0:16 Without objection, I will move approval, I guess.
0:20 Without objection, they're approved.
0:24 Moving on to the next item is a communication from Council President Keppel and myself
0:30 about the Lakewood Host Community Cannabis Fund.
0:33 We talked about it a little bit at the full council meeting, I believe, a couple weeks
0:39 ago where the City of Lakewood has received, finally, after a little bit of a delay, the
0:48 revenue associated with the Host Community Cannabis Fund through the state of Ohio.
0:53 We expect to receive revenue on an ongoing basis due to the sale of adult use cannabis
1:00 in the City of Lakewood in our two current locations.
1:04 And so we sought to enact basically to put those funds aside and do a fund that can
1:14 be created under our codified ordinances.
1:17 So this ordinance before us is to establish the fund and set out the purpose of the
1:24 I believe in some of my conversations with Director Mahoney, there will need to be further
1:28 appropriation ordinance that will allocate those funds, which is separate from the
1:34 establishment of the fund.
1:38 Would you walk us through that, Director Mahoney, kind of the difference between those
1:41 things and what is necessary to follow?
1:45 So this ordinance would just create the fund and, like Councilman Baker said, the
1:52 anticipated uses of the money.
1:56 But it doesn't establish the ability to actually spend the money.
2:00 So we would have to do an amended appropriation ordinance, which I said once this passes,
2:06 I can gladly get that going.
2:13 And Director Mahoney, and we talked about this before, but I'd like to just confirm
2:16 on the record for the committee is that as far as the way this ordinance is drafted
2:22 and the establishment of the fund, do you think it's appropriate?
2:25 It is, but I will have to send it down to Columbus for them to authorize it.
2:32 They always have to have their stamp on it.
2:35 Process-wise, does that typically happen after the ordinance that creates it?
2:38 After it's passed, yes.
2:40 It doesn't really make sense because it's passed.
2:45 Sometimes state government doesn't make sense.
2:47 I don't see a problem with it, though.
2:51 The other thing is, you know, we, in the draft ordinance, there's, the authorized
2:59 expenditures are highlighted.
3:04 So that was, you know, our best guess as to kind of how to bucket those funds.
3:11 Now, as with anything else, we can transfer funds between funds, you know, through
3:17 This kind of essentially parks it there until it's appropriated through an operating
3:24 So it kind of segregates the funds as opposed to the general fund, whereas the larger
3:29 bucket that we spend funds from as a city.
3:33 So is there any discussion amongst the committee members about the authorized expenditures?
3:39 Councilperson Striebeck.
3:42 First of all, thank you to both you and Council President Keppel for this work.
3:47 And Director Mahoney, thank you for weighing in on the appropriateness of this.
3:54 I would like to see health added to the safety here.
4:00 I'd like you to say, to use only for the expense of public health and safety
4:05 related issues within the city of Lakewood, including complete streets, ADA transition
4:12 plan implementations, and the Lakewood community health needs assessment.
4:20 Because I do think, and then going on, and other capital improvements related to
4:24 accessibility, equity, and wellness.
4:27 I think that to put safety in there without putting health, I think we miss some opportunities
4:35 Especially when we're looking at funding from a drug and possibly some mental health
4:44 needs for a community that may not be covered under safety.
4:50 That's a really good point.
4:58 Any other comments from members of the committee?
5:03 I would just add to that, I think that's a great point, and that's actually why I'm
5:06 Director Berry here as well.
5:09 Due to the recent cuts at the county, that is impacting our human services budget.
5:16 We are okay for this year, but in future years, assuming those cuts continue,
5:21 So I would advocate for human services in general.
5:24 And then Director Berry is here if you have any specific questions related to how
5:28 those cuts are affecting the city.
5:34 Now, I guess that's a question I have about fund establishment, is that right now, since
5:42 you limited to capital, so, but you could have funds that are, that can be used for
5:51 capital or operating, right, just a purpose?
5:57 You can spend capital funds out of any fund.
6:00 As long as it meets the purpose of the fund?
6:02 That's correct, yeah.
6:05 So then I think there, in order to, I think right now it's, as drafted, it seems to
6:13 be limited to capital.
6:20 And that's where we may be able to broaden it.
6:26 So I think that what I'm hearing is there is some interplay in how we would
6:29 like to potentially change, authorize expenditures.
6:34 But since we have Director Berry here, you know, could you share with us some of the
6:37 challenges that you're having this year and as you kind of try to look through
6:41 the foggy horizon as to what you see coming forward?
6:48 Unfortunately, we found out very recently, along with many other providers, that our
6:54 community-based services contract, which covers our Division of Youth, and is our
6:59 pot of funds that pays for all of our personnel that helps families in Lakewood
7:05 and in surrounding communities, has been cut, and they are looking at a
7:09 24.4% cut across the board.
7:12 Very similar to what they've proposed for the Adams Board and any of their
7:16 programming and other county programming.
7:20 And our contract for this year is going to suffer to the tune of $158,000 off the
7:29 And we've already been running very narrow margins because that's what we
7:35 Luckily, there was a few positions that we had proposed that we didn't end up
7:39 hiring for, so we've made a couple cuts that didn't affect current
7:44 personnel or actual service provision, but we have lost some funding that is
7:51 going to make it more difficult for us to provide emergency assistance to
7:55 families in Lakewood.
7:56 And I was pulling numbers before this just to kind of give you an idea,
8:00 and over the last two and a half years, we've worked with 227 different
8:05 unique families just in Lakewood alone, and over close to a thousand
8:10 different families in our surrounding communities, including Lakewood, just in
8:17 And we're just seeing across the board almost a 200% increase in the
8:23 referrals that are coming in from years prior.
8:25 So the need has increased absolutely dramatically, and now our funding is
8:31 being cut, so it's going to be very difficult to meet the needs of the
8:35 families, and, you know, we're doing a lot of great good in the community.
8:42 And I've located some funding that's going to get us through this year and
8:46 potentially part of next year where we're not going to have major
8:52 suffering or anything like that in the department, but it would be
8:57 helpful for us to have some stability, and I could see these funds
9:02 providing a little bit of that to us so we can continue to meet the needs
9:06 of the community, which just seem to be growing year after year.
9:13 Well, I mean, from my standpoint, I think, you know, that's certainly
9:17 worthy, you know, of these funds and that's interesting.
9:22 So you said it was it was 200 families and then so we serve a lot
9:26 of families from out of Lakewood as well.
9:28 This program actually serves most of the Western suburbs, including
9:34 two Cleveland zip codes, 111 and 135, although primarily these days
9:41 we are serving the vast majority referrals are coming from Lakewood
9:44 and kind of the West Park area, you know, and we've always believed
9:48 that strengthening our neighbors strengthens us and, you know,
9:52 making sure that families are stable, ultimately stabilizes the families
9:58 But we're really seeing an increase in referrals in Lakewood itself.
10:04 I mean, like I said, that's actually up like 195 percent.
10:07 So, you know, we're seeing upwards of 15 or 20 referrals just
10:13 for Lakewood alone.
10:14 We have a very good partnership with the schools, but those are
10:16 also DCFS derived like referrals.
10:18 So they're coming straight from the county as well.
10:21 So the need is just climbing.
10:24 They are also struggling to maintain staffing with their social
10:30 Their training has suffered.
10:32 They have hundreds of open positions at this point with their
10:37 So a lot of the responsibilities that might have been filled
10:41 by DCFS itself are now kind of being given off to the neighborhood
10:48 So we're part of ten different agencies that service all of
10:52 Cuyahoga County every single zip code, providing resources and
10:56 supports to families to stabilize.
10:58 And, you know, if you don't have your kiddos reunify, hopefully
11:02 it's always the goal.
11:03 We provide visitation and rental assistance.
11:06 So in Lakewood alone, we're providing, you know, tons of
11:11 resources and supports, rental assistance, utility assistance.
11:15 A lot of the things that LCSC isn't able to do, we're
11:21 So if you have a kiddo in your home under 18, you know, or 22
11:25 with a disability, you know, we're able to help.
11:29 And we have a lot of nimbleness because of the funding.
11:34 There's not a lot of restrictions, which makes us really
11:39 able to do things that no one else is able to do.
11:43 So it's a really impactful program.
11:45 Danielle, I used to work for that team.
11:48 So I'm sure she can speak to the kind of work that we do, but
11:52 it's a real struggle now because our referrals are really
11:58 One month we had over 60 new referrals where back in the
12:02 day it was maybe 20 a month, you know, and it's just a
12:05 team of three social workers and a resource specialist.
12:08 So any bit of funding would help.
12:12 We would definitely be grateful.
12:17 I mean, it's, you know, the county's referring more and
12:25 So I certainly, you know, I don't like to make verbal
12:32 motions on the floor to kind of clean up the language
12:35 in this ordinance as far as the authorized expenses go.
12:38 But I would certainly welcome, you know, a deferral
12:43 tonight based upon our conversation and then add some
12:45 language in Councilperson Striebig's language, make sure
12:49 we have flexibility about it being used to be able to use
12:51 for operations or capital and then go from there.
12:57 Now process wise, I think Councilperson Striebig, if
13:01 you could put your suggestions in an email or something
13:04 or some written form and then I can coordinate with
13:08 Director Mahoney to make sure that they would cover what
13:10 Director Berry is talking about and then we can go
13:14 ahead and have that revised language the next committee
13:18 meeting and kind of also give our colleagues a chance to
13:22 think about it as well.
13:23 Yeah, Councilman Bullock.
13:26 First, I have some questions before the Human Services
13:29 I have some follow-up for Director Berry.
13:32 I kind of want to go make sure I understand a couple
13:35 of the technical clauses and then get clarification about
13:38 the current draft of authorized expenditures.
13:41 So there's a few things here, but Director Berry, can you
13:45 remind us the timeline for the budget?
13:50 Our budget is January 1 to December 31.
13:54 The county's budget is same or different.
13:57 So the point is the changes that you anticipate or
14:00 you receive notice of take effect when?
14:05 The county's budget, they have a very odd system.
14:10 Our contract is actually December 1 through, or not
14:15 December 1, January 1 through December 31, 2026 and
14:19 2027, but the actual financial piece is March, April
14:27 rather, April through March.
14:30 So you've received information that your three
14:34 quarters of the financial year will get a 25-point
14:39 And it's a rector active cut.
14:41 So it's actually back to January 1 and unfortunately
14:45 this, I don't want to throw stones or anything, but
14:47 we had to actually solicit this information.
14:51 They said that they were going to tell us and then
14:55 something happened and then they didn't tell us.
14:57 So we're actually just coming into this information.
14:59 They had told us that they were maybe planning on
15:02 doing this a little while back last year, but they've
15:06 So I actually don't know when they will get the
15:09 contract amendments out.
15:11 All of us have to actually do all the contracting
15:13 documents and go through at all 10 agencies.
15:15 You can imagine what that is.
15:17 So within the next two months, I'm assuming this
15:22 You said you identified a funding source that will
15:25 cover for this year and into next.
15:28 Can you share a little more on that?
15:30 Yeah, we were able to work with the Lakewood
15:35 They have a fund that came from the Lakewood
15:39 Hospital Association and we were able to kind of
15:43 develop a program that we're moving forward
15:45 with where one of our clinical manager for this
15:49 program is going to work a little bit, you
15:52 know, 70% of her time also on an 18 to 59
15:58 crisis intervention generalist position.
16:00 So they're going to transfer $60,000 per year
16:06 So that helps reduce the burden, but we had to
16:09 eliminate two positions that were unfilled and
16:12 we also had to reduce a number of our line
16:14 items for emergency assistance and other
16:19 So your point is current employees you think
16:23 are taking care of, but FTEs is reduced
16:28 case load capacity is reduced while demanding.
16:32 Thanks for that update.
16:33 So if I can just keep pivoting, so just on
16:37 the technical side, I'm not sure I understand
16:41 what some second section one subparagraph D
16:45 does with the point about no further bond
16:54 Yeah, so I can I can provide the answer
16:56 that that is director Mahoney can probably
17:00 further buttress what I'm going to say,
17:01 but just from a legal standpoint there
17:03 needs to be a custodian of the fund and the
17:05 custodian of all of our funds is the finance
17:07 director and the finance director technically
17:09 has a bond so that if the finance director
17:13 misappropriated funds in the city of Lakewood,
17:14 we have insurance for that.
17:16 So that's just every fund that we have has
17:19 that type of language in it.
17:20 So that if there was a misappropriation
17:23 by the finance director, the city would
17:27 Is that an accurate description of it?
17:31 I don't see where it says bond in there.
17:38 Oh, I'm looking at B.
17:41 And actually I don't have a bond anymore.
17:45 So it's I'm covered under employee.
17:47 It's just director and liabilities and yes.
17:51 Oh, well I'm not sure parks has a bond
17:56 I guess every yeah, it's changed
17:58 in the last few years.
17:59 It's not not necessary.
18:02 But to clarify you're saying
18:06 the city has coverage.
18:10 So so I appreciate that technical thing.
18:12 So maybe the heart of the matter is in C.
18:14 Could could I hear little make sure
18:17 I'm reading this correctly.
18:18 So public safety related issues means
18:21 police fire that kind of related matter
18:23 or is it a broader definition and then
18:25 certainly it's clear the current draft
18:28 says including complete streets
18:29 and ADA Transition Plan implementation
18:32 and other capital improvements.
18:34 I mean depending on how we read the wording
18:36 there public safety related issues
18:38 might cover operating already
18:44 You know infer or imply that capital
18:47 all of its capital.
18:49 We meant to start a conversation
18:53 and so our inference was this was
18:56 the start and we wanted our colleagues
18:59 and the administration's input
19:01 and what else would be so
19:04 I think section C is going to see
19:05 the most amount of revisions based
19:07 upon our discussion this evening.
19:08 Yeah, just just what I'm asking
19:10 It's just as as you in the intent
19:12 of the initial draft is
19:16 what was to have it limited to
19:20 But I think now with some additional
19:24 comments, you know health is also
19:26 really important community health
19:28 and then we wanted it to include
19:31 complete streets and ADA Transition Plan
19:36 Yeah capital so we can we can
19:38 expand that to be operations.
19:40 I guess the point is is that
19:43 we knew that the state pretty
19:45 quickly released the funds.
19:46 We wanted to start the conversation.
19:50 Truthfully, it was a Tuesday evening
19:52 and I was drafting this to meet
19:55 the docket deadline.
19:57 So my intent was to
19:59 highlight that language.
20:00 So we had a conversation now.
20:02 So I wouldn't read too much into
20:05 this is not frozen in amber.
20:07 Yeah, I appreciate it and thank
20:09 you for taking the lead here.
20:11 So the current draft would be public
20:13 safety and potentially and health
20:16 capital and operations and then
20:17 for sure also complete streets
20:19 and ADA Transition Plan capital.
20:21 That's that's what I think I'm
20:23 So I guess to put my cards on
20:27 I certainly could support health
20:29 you know, maybe maybe though
20:30 the point here would be to
20:32 reserve these funds for new
20:33 initiatives beyond our norm.
20:38 you know, I guess I'd welcome
20:39 the discussion with the
20:41 Department of Human Services
20:43 about how we keep the
20:46 services intact or as intact
20:50 and there's some discussion
20:52 we had there because essentially
20:59 that provides local
21:01 services for the county services
21:04 and in other areas, I think we
21:05 match and so we do some
21:07 city-initiated services that
21:10 they exceed county services,
21:13 I per I my own interest
21:15 is in is in using this
21:19 funding stream for new things
21:21 things that go above what are
21:22 business as usual has been
21:24 mental health services certainly
21:28 especially if there's
21:30 model programs around substance
21:32 abuse for addiction or something
21:35 Now, I know that Mr.
21:36 Barry's team already provides
21:38 some of those and so there's
21:41 I think the spirit of this is
21:42 something I definitely agree with
21:43 which is that we'd want
21:47 leverage the opportunity to do
21:50 valuable activities or investments
21:54 and not just have this become
21:57 general operations which could
21:59 get absorbed in a bunch of ways
22:02 as difficult as it as that is
22:03 and I appreciate that the
22:04 briefing that the mayor's
22:08 Yeah, and I think I will
22:12 Councilor Volk, you were the
22:13 only one on council when the
22:15 marijuana thing came through
22:16 when I was on planning commission
22:18 I think part of it was
22:20 they literally had like a
22:21 permit 50 grand a year
22:22 and the intention was that
22:23 would partially pay for
22:26 some portion of an FTE of a
22:27 police officer because they
22:29 kind of what from public safety
22:32 these cash only businesses at
22:35 in the community and wanted to
22:37 keeping our eyes there.
22:40 I started with public safety,
22:42 but I certainly welcome everything
22:44 else we're talking about and I
22:47 I see where your intention is
22:50 at the end of the day we get
22:52 you know, we try to do what we
22:55 like the holes and be as smart
22:57 That's where we don't want to
22:58 be so restrictive on the
22:59 administration that they can't
23:02 for bonds in order to
23:03 write. So we spend money we
23:04 have now. So we're not taking
23:07 But I guess I'm always
23:16 And so there's a tendency
23:18 often for us all to
23:20 do what we've done before.
23:22 So I'm hoping to provide
23:24 supports for this can be an
23:27 the former category.
23:28 It's an ideal world.
23:34 Any other comments or questions?
23:36 Council President Keppel.
23:39 Berry when did the county
23:43 the cuts to the funding?
23:52 They gave us a initial
23:55 towards the end of last year.
23:57 But then there was no word
23:58 or any kind of movement.
24:02 on behalf of Lakewood
24:04 and the rest of the members
24:19 and they confirmed.
24:22 That they will be moving
24:23 forward with the cuts
24:24 and it will be twenty four
24:25 point four percent across
24:28 But they were not able to
24:28 give us any kind of
24:32 twenty twenty seven
24:33 nor what they plan to
24:40 because we have that within
24:41 bounds of the current
24:43 or they'll ask us to
24:46 or maybe they won't even
24:56 Councilperson Hamilton center.
24:58 Thank you Chair Baker.
25:01 came in a little bit late
25:02 so I believe some of these
25:03 points have been raised
25:05 my first thought when I
25:06 read through this also
25:07 was related to Part C
25:09 and just the definition
25:14 could fall under the
25:15 public safety umbrella.
25:15 So I was definitely on
25:18 with Director Berry
25:19 for purposes of this
25:21 and then also including
25:22 as Councilwoman Streebeck
25:26 and if we are defining
25:28 public safety broadly
25:32 ADA transition plan
25:33 and capital improvement
25:36 room for programmatic
25:38 So I would certainly
25:42 of either the definition
25:47 Health and Human Services
25:48 which also would include
25:57 I want to use this time
26:03 at how we're allocating
26:05 within our government
26:07 and looking through
26:10 and I think the complete
26:12 is a good starting point
26:14 take this opportunity
26:16 perhaps even with this
26:19 metrics that can be
26:25 expenses with our goals
26:28 so really looking at
26:30 through an equity lens
26:35 that we're budgeting
26:37 and that we're investing
26:42 into who we say that
26:47 Thank you any other comments?
26:52 the proper way to do this
26:56 Councilperson Striebig
27:02 substitute available
27:05 Finance Committee meeting
27:07 but I think as an order
27:09 I'll go ahead and make
27:10 a motion to receive
27:11 and file the communication
27:14 from Council President
27:19 and second any discussion
27:21 all those in favor say aye.
27:23 Then I'll make a motion
27:28 for further deliberations.
27:32 and second any discussion
27:34 all those in favor say aye.
27:39 Finance Director Mahoney
27:41 about the Audit Committee.
27:48 to receive and file
27:48 that communication.
27:51 and second any discussion
27:54 all those in favor say aye.
28:03 and I have had some
28:04 conversations about it
28:06 I think it's good just
28:06 to give her an opportunity
28:10 what's being proposed
28:11 here and kind of the
28:12 procedural history here.
28:22 for cities to create
28:29 just kept their finance
28:31 as the audit committee.
28:34 create an audit committee.
28:40 it's been like 15 years ago
28:43 basically all we ever did
28:46 have the auditors come in
28:52 but it just didn't seem
28:53 like there was quite
28:56 So I mean the general
28:57 purpose of an audit
28:58 committee is just to
29:04 have a presentation
29:07 or just a presentation
29:28 which they kept saying
29:30 cities received that.
29:41 was that the audit committee
29:43 just stopped meeting
29:44 because they didn't really
29:48 And so that's why I'm
29:49 proposing just having
29:51 either the auditors come
29:52 to a finance committee
29:57 council wouldn't want
29:58 that I could always
30:02 mentioned to Councilman
30:04 the I'm pretty sure
30:07 president of council
30:08 receives a notification
30:11 when the audit documents
30:28 having an audit committee
30:31 look at that anymore
30:33 always a good practice
30:35 so finance committee
30:37 reviewing the audit
30:44 Thanks Director Mahoney
30:47 couple thoughts first
30:54 who was the finance
30:54 director of the time
30:56 fruitful interaction
31:01 of companies who had
31:05 all manner of things
31:05 not just the accounting
31:07 practices and procedures
31:15 at least for a couple
31:18 fruitful management
31:26 and acknowledge that
31:32 that that's under the
31:33 control of the finance
31:39 believe is called by
31:41 of the audit committee.
31:48 you know it's going
31:52 and the functioning
32:02 all these financial
32:03 the finance director
32:13 and deep experience
32:32 something different
34:05 don't think we currently have a CPA or a CFO
34:13 meaningful value to having
34:19 benefit of some pretty
34:30 an accessory to the
34:31 Find This Committee.
34:35 Yeah, thank you and I I've thought about this for a long time,
34:43 because I think Councilman Bullock is is correct
34:47 that when run appropriately it may provide some value.
34:52 I think this was was created in 2007.
34:55 We lived in a different world back then.
34:58 I was just talking to
35:01 one of the Sonagra kids and you know dockets used to
35:05 on Sunday night by police before Council meetings.
35:08 And so like information accessibility was a lot different
35:11 in 2007 than it is today.
35:17 from a practical perspective.
35:19 and I so I think there were benefits of the Audit Committee
35:22 in the sense that you had kind of
35:24 more technocratic people involved,
35:25 but it wasn't really a full public meeting in the sense
35:28 that like people knew about it and they would go.
35:30 That's where I think if you have it at the Finance Committee
35:34 you know people know where to come to watch.
35:36 They know where to go to get the information.
35:37 They can get the audit document.
35:39 so so from my perspective I
35:43 discarding what you say something it's valid.
35:47 But I do think that the other way is also valid
35:52 you know what I and I have a couple proposals that
35:55 I sent to the clerk's office that would
35:58 not fully repeal this ordinance,
35:59 but essentially codified the Finance Committee
36:02 is the Audit Committee.
36:05 So so there would be an empowerment of the Finance
36:08 Committee to serve that purpose.
36:12 And then basically it says that the Finance Director
36:15 will prepare a communication
36:17 when the audit is complete
36:19 and it will be referred to the Audit Committee
36:21 and then the Finance Director will make the auditors
36:24 available come speak to us at a public meeting.
36:27 Because I think in that way it would
36:29 elevate the issue of the public.
36:32 It would provide the audit document
36:35 and it would and there are you know,
36:38 I know audits are there's like findings right
36:41 or no findings or you know recommended controls
36:44 or issues or so it goes
36:46 audits are especially public audits are very
36:48 interesting documents because they
36:50 they even audit public records,
36:51 you know how you handle that.
36:54 kind of financial controls
36:57 and there was some element of the Audit Committee
36:59 that I don't think they ever functioned in
37:02 you know mismanagement of fraud allegations
37:06 of abuse those types of things.
37:10 How was the public supposed to know to go to
37:12 the Audit Committee to make those
37:17 and the Auditor of State has already created
37:19 kind of a hotline for that.
37:22 Lakewood might even have our own hotline
37:23 for it to report fraud abuse.
37:27 it's it's one of those things where I think
37:29 we're just different from 2007.
37:30 Now does that mean we need to do away with it?
37:34 I think we can change and that's where I
37:38 amending this ordinance to
37:42 kind of narrow the Audit Committee to be a
37:46 I'd be happy to discuss my proposed amendments
37:49 on the floor tonight.
37:51 I talked about them in broad breast strokes
37:53 to Director Mahoney earlier today,
37:55 but we can kind of propose them tonight
37:57 and then defer so the administration has time
37:59 We have time to think about it
38:01 and then maybe at the next meeting when we're
38:02 going to consider the host cannabis fund.
38:04 Anyways, we do that as well.
38:06 Any other thoughts or comments from Council
38:08 Council President Keppel.
38:11 I think that seems like a sensible approach.
38:15 Director Mahoney and I talked about this
38:17 and you know, I was on the
38:22 and I'm not actually tied to repealing it.
38:24 It was more my concern was
38:27 having I don't like having
38:29 committees on the books that we need to
38:31 appoint people to that are
38:34 actively meeting and that people feel like
38:37 you know, being well used.
38:40 In fact, the two Council appointees,
38:43 most recent Council appointees,
38:44 these Audit Committee were on it because
38:47 I was the one that reached out to them
38:48 and asked them to serve on it because
38:50 the Council appointees before that,
38:52 it had been vacant for some time.
38:55 That was when I was first on Council in
39:01 2020, February 18, 2020.
39:06 I think there's been,
39:08 you know, there may have been times where
39:10 you know, there was some good work and
39:12 sounds like a broader purpose,
39:15 the most part it seems like
39:17 this has continued to be
39:20 since as Vice President Baker pointed out
39:23 since its initial formation that
39:25 it's not necessarily the best way to
39:30 shine a light on the audit.
39:31 And so I think having it come before
39:33 the Finance Committee,
39:35 we can still encourage folks we know,
39:41 Council appointees who just rolled off
39:43 and elected not to be reappointed
39:45 because they didn't feel like it was
39:46 really worth their time to do,
39:48 would be happy to come to those
39:51 Finance Committee meetings and
39:53 and listen to the report too.
39:54 So, you know, I think we can all
39:56 invite members of the public to
39:59 when if we had the audit presented
40:02 before the Finance Committee,
40:03 which would actually shine more light
40:05 So I think that's a smart way to do it.
40:13 Councilperson Hamilton-Saner.
40:15 Thank you Chair Baker.
40:18 So in reading this,
40:20 the question that I had in Director Marhoney
40:22 essentially answered the question
40:24 I had was just, you know,
40:25 particularly reason other than for
40:27 efficiency to eliminate the citizen
40:30 of the city's finances.
40:32 But I do think that there is value
40:40 to having like an external
40:43 individual also review
40:46 So, you know, as we're
40:48 thinking of process,
40:52 President Kappel's words,
40:57 instead, similar to what President Kappel
40:59 had, is to have like
41:01 an ad hoc advisory.
41:03 So two to three individuals
41:07 they know this is what they do
41:10 and they're not tied to the city
41:13 and they come to that Finance Committee
41:15 and sit up there and sort of help us
41:17 sort of analyze and look at
41:19 the audit and answer questions
41:21 and, you know, so we also have,
41:23 you know, Director Mahoney there,
41:24 but we also have these citizens
41:26 and they sort of are
41:27 representing the citizen's voice
41:29 that there is value
41:31 in that and I'm sure that there
41:34 are people that this is their land
41:37 They like looking at this
41:39 and they would love to be a part
41:41 if it's just one meeting.
41:43 they, you know, can share sort of
41:46 or here's what we're seeing
41:48 and, you know, they share their
41:49 perspective and they get that opportunity
41:51 to shine and share with us their talent.
41:53 So I do think that there is a hybrid
41:55 way that we can do it
41:57 because I do think that everybody,
41:59 all of you have made some good points.
42:02 Yeah, and I will say that,
42:04 having been a part of
42:09 the auditor comes in every year,
42:13 and that's the whole idea is that
42:16 tailored this amendment
42:18 that we can talk about in a moment
42:20 the auditor will be here.
42:21 So that's the third party, right?
42:24 And the intention would be
42:25 that the auditor will come
42:27 so that we could directly ask
42:30 a third party, you know,
42:31 what concerns do you have, right?
42:33 What should we be thinking about?
42:36 They're either appointed by the state auditor
42:38 as a state auditor employee
42:39 or we have to pay someone
42:40 that the state auditor
42:42 authorizes to do the audit, right?
42:43 Is that the way it works?
42:45 The state auditor always has
42:47 first right of refusal
42:50 currently we have an independent
42:54 accountant, not the state,
42:55 doing our audits currently.
43:02 you know, there would
43:03 there still would be the opportunity
43:04 and other public entities.
43:07 they're like us, right?
43:09 Professionals in different fields,
43:11 when you read an audit,
43:14 particularly a public audit report,
43:17 they make it very clear
43:18 when there are issues
43:19 and they highlight them to a point where
43:22 they hit you on the head.
43:27 I do now, you know,
43:28 I think what you and Councilman Bullock
43:30 are discussing about engaging
43:31 the public is really not a bad thing.
43:35 I just think we would
43:36 I would not be nervous about us
43:38 not having the capacity
43:40 to kind of understand
43:41 and be able to ask someone
43:43 who's independent about these issues.
43:45 And I think in a way that
43:47 would elevate it more
43:48 if it were at Finance Committee
43:50 as opposed to a Zoom meeting at noon
43:56 you know, but there's
43:57 there's also slight negatives of that too,
43:59 which you guys have highlighted.
44:03 there's benefit either way.
44:08 having it at Finance Committee though.
44:13 Any other comments or thoughts?
44:17 Councilperson Striebe.
44:24 Mr. Bullock's point,
44:25 Councilman Bullock's point
44:26 that, you know, we are generalists
44:30 specifics and warnings from
44:33 people with a lot more experience
44:36 than we have than I have
44:38 is very beneficial.
44:40 At the same time, I'm also hearing that
44:45 the community is not interested in it,
44:47 then we have to we have to go a different route.
44:50 and looking forward to hearing your recommendations.
44:55 So yeah, I put together an email
45:00 I guess ask the clerk to prepare a
45:02 substitute ordinance,
45:03 but I'll just go through it
45:07 you know, the current
45:13 of the ordinance that would repeal the section,
45:15 my edits would basically keep
45:21 There would be no edits.
45:22 So there would still be an audit committee
45:23 and the audit committee would do all those functions.
45:27 Where the edits would then come is in
45:34 comma to two Lakewood residents
45:36 all the way through the end.
45:37 So basically say the audit committee's membership is
45:39 the audit committee shall be comprised of
45:41 or composed of the Lakewood City Council
45:43 Finance Committee members.
45:45 That would be the audit committee.
45:49 And then I would I would delete
45:51 section 160.03 terms
45:56 a section 160.03 independent audit
45:59 and say the director of finance or designee
46:01 shall by communication
46:03 to City Council's docket provide the independent
46:06 parens s so reports
46:09 at least annual and be available
46:11 along with a representative of the independent auditor
46:14 with audit committee in a public meeting.
46:20 I would delete bylaws.
46:22 So we just read general rules of operation.
46:25 And then I would delete
46:26 on a quarterly basis.
46:27 The committee shall devise its own officers
46:29 governance and place or time of assembly.
46:36 annually to review the independent auditor reports
46:38 and periodically as necessary to accomplish a purpose
46:44 the committee shall meet
46:46 at least on a annual
46:48 at least annually to review the independent
46:51 and periodically as necessary to accomplish a purpose
46:57 that will be a substitute a proposed substitute
46:59 ordinance that I will
47:00 bring forward at the next
47:02 finance committee meeting.
47:05 I don't know if director Mahoney we talked about
47:07 it, but I don't know if you have any comments
47:08 or concerns about what I've drafted.
47:11 No, I just have a few comments.
47:13 I think the the purpose that
47:18 perhaps before, you know, their recommendations
47:20 of audit committees
47:23 maybe they weren't being shared with
47:26 you know with council
47:29 so that's that the point is to
47:32 ensure that the public knows about it.
47:35 that a presentation during a finance committee
47:40 much more open to the public
47:42 than, you know, a committee meeting
47:45 that's in the mayor's conference room.
47:49 so there is also just
47:53 the auditors make us all sign off
47:55 on an exit interview
47:57 Most of the time everyone says no, we don't need
48:02 you know, that's sent
48:04 I believe it's to council.
48:05 I know it's to them.
48:06 You know, so that you you would all have
48:09 the opportunity to say
48:10 yes, I want an exit interview
48:13 or no, we don't need one.
48:14 So that's part of the
48:16 year, the end of the process.
48:21 could be accomplished by just
48:23 council saying yes, we want an exit interview.
48:26 rather than the audit committee.
48:31 Yeah, I do think there is benefit to having
48:33 the independent auditor before council.
48:37 someone whether it's virtually, right?
48:38 They may I don't know who if our auditor
48:40 is local or other local
48:42 and in my past experiences,
48:46 they're always willing to come to
48:48 They want to be let out of the
48:51 hallway room that they crunch all the numbers
48:54 I just saw them there.
48:56 They're here this week.
48:59 So that's what I would propose.
49:02 any other amendments if those have them in
49:04 between meetings or comments or concerns
49:06 based upon what I brought up council book.
49:08 Thanks. Good discussion.
49:13 amendment you're describing
49:14 and look forward to getting it in
49:18 I did receive your email,
49:19 which was helpful today.
49:21 I especially like keeping 160.
49:24 My reading of that by the way is broader
49:30 an audit report formally
49:33 presented by our auditor,
49:35 which certainly included
49:41 a much broader reading that said,
49:42 you know to provide an independent review
49:48 oversight over the city financial reporting process
49:52 So that that's inclusive of but broader
49:55 and I think the purpose here
49:58 and at least for some of the years
49:59 it was in function.
50:06 it's it's it's a dialogue with
50:13 in certified in the field,
50:15 a dialogue with our finance department,
50:17 which is excellent.
50:21 technology keeps changing,
50:23 our financial position keeps changing,
50:25 pressures outside of our city government
50:30 the local government fund has been cut in half.
50:32 We went through a national housing foreclosure crisis.
50:35 city budget cuts with a bunch of changes,
50:37 So the pressures that come to the city
50:40 aren't going to be one thing and static
50:44 I think is broader than just
50:50 any given fiscal years
50:53 So that's that's the part that interests me.
50:57 there's value in having the finance committee be the
51:01 convener of that for now.
51:03 The part that I want to put thought to
51:07 I think as Councilwoman Hamilton-Siner was
51:09 alluding or envisioning,
51:11 could we have our cake and eat it too where we'd have
51:15 Council President Keppel also
51:18 we've got some people we identify they haven't been
51:22 meeting formally or used as intended
51:26 potential finance committee led
51:31 involve them in ways that are not just member of the
51:33 public come and join.
51:35 I think it's more likely that
51:42 commit significant hours
51:45 involved in reading through a diet and digesting
51:53 that's my thoughts for now.
51:54 So I thank you for the thoughtful
52:02 Well at this point I'll
52:05 defer that or make a motion to defer this action and then
52:08 we can come up with a substitute and then I welcome
52:11 there's a lot of ways to do this.
52:17 to the extent you you would like to see a change and
52:19 we can talk about it more fully
52:22 the next committee meeting.
52:25 So I'll go ahead and make a motion to defer
52:32 Motion is made in second in discussion.
52:35 All those favor aye.
52:38 No further business before the Finance Committee.
52:41 We have five minutes.